333.i2p: Mourning the loss of zzz for I2P

Mon, 27 Mar 2023, 08:44am	Mourning the loss of zzz for I2P »
VargThePissed Участник Registered: March 2023 Последний раз: Sat, 15 Apr 2023 Сообщения: 28	[quote=fairlyNoobQuestions] VargThePissed and zlatinb were engaged in an oppositional discussion but given that some time has passed it seems community members have put aside what appear to me minor or perceived differences for the sake of a greater good, and that is the health of the I2P network and the community. [/quote] I haven't put aside anything. I think zlatinb(fake) is a Jew who is pretending to be zab. He doesn't talk like him or act like him. But there's little to no point in arguing with Jews. They will just blather nonsense constantly. There's further evidence that there are problems with I2P java. Looking at this post, "repo not working on whonix install" He's trying to update and getting, "...The following signatures couldn’t be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY AB9660B9EB2CC88B..." So could it be that zzz removed his key. Maybe the present controllers of I2P java have keys for some of it but missed this one. So zzz removes it and people notice. Like me. Address below. http://i2pforum.i2p/viewtopic.php?p=2572&si... [quote=fairlyNoobQuestions] Also looking forward to someone posting the contents of the zip file above that I cannot open.[/quote] Here is the zip file in text form,cut and paste, "zzz.i2p Development discussions Home Forum You are not logged in Register Login i2p projekt should stay politically neutral « Complaints and Questions ... « I2P Help, Hints, Advice 1 day ago #1 minetest_i2p Lurker this is regarding the text at the bottom of : http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/contact it reads: " I2P welcomes all kinds of people, as long as they are friendly and helpful to each other. We disgrace hate, anger, racism, and bad speaking towards anyone. We do support LBGT, suppressed minorites and other people, wether they need help in kind of our I2P software or not. We work together to build a free world without hate, racism and violence. The I2P router software was created in this spirit and should be used to help repressed people to regain their freedom of speech, while not suppressing others. " now do I think this statement is bad, no not really but me and many others think it should stay neutral. in fact just about anyone on #i2p-chat (irc2p) thinks so please change it or delete it to remain neutral here is a recommended change from "det" over on irc2p "I2P protects people from hatred, but it does not discriminate against protecting the hateful, so be aware that on this network you will find humanity." or "I2P welcomes all kinds of people, whether friendly and helpful or grumpy and cantankerous you can find a home here." : also there are many typos in the statment wether and LBGT (unless thats some other group i havent heard about) find my site and gpg key here http://minetest.i2p -minetest_i2p Link 1 day ago #2 Sig Lurker Haven't said much on IRC but count me in those who "think so" too, didn't think I'd see this kind of agenda pushed on an anonymous network project. Link 1 day ago #3 rapidash Lurker I wish to express my rejection towards taking overtly political or partisan stances. For one, I think it is hard to differentiate political statements from partisan statements, so any single time a group endorses a particular political position, it always reads as "We vote for $PARTY", which is most likely NOT the image most groups want to portray. By that, I mean that even groups that are in the pocket of some political party want to look like they are NOT in the pocket of some political party. Modern diversity statements are also a comparative offense, every single time. I belong to a minority group that is never referenced by diversity statements. Every single time a diversity statement is published, it feels like the group issuing the statement thinks a whole lot of people (gays, blacks, whatever) deserves mention. The problem is every group not mentioned is automatically relegated to a second place at best. Diversity statements are discriminatory in that they ALWAYS imply that the team issuing them cares more for certain groups of people than for others. Lots of groups are opposed to each other, so you can't really agree with all of them. If you endorse gays you will antagonize a number of Muslim groups automatically, for example. The only way in which you can be friendly to both groups is to have no favorites. In practical terms that means if you want to be friendly to most groups, the only rule you need is "I2P welcomes anybody who is not an utter asshole". Anything else looks like cheap virtue signaling that is not even a good effort at that. Link 23 hours ago #4 csaybacsiuaybc Lurker +1 for minetest. Develop on I2P to improve the software. You can have your own political views when it comes to various topics but don't make it so the project itself is associated with any sort of views like this. The point of this is for freedom to all who use it and that is what this should be about. Freedom for everyone. Love LGBT, hate a minority, sharing designs for printed guns for terrorists, etc none of it should matter when it comes to I2P. Last edited: 22 hours ago by csaybacsiuaybc Link 23 hours ago #5 Flupke Lurker I really think this is stupid that a community around a tool made for freedom of speech speaks about repressing anyone. Some people hate some people due to this or that specificity, that is human and choosing an hate instead of another hate (for example choosing the hate of racism instead of the hate of different races) is still choosing a hate. It would be OK to state that people should not discourage other people to participate to the project for whatever reason and so keep their own hate for themselves in the participation to the project but that ideological choice is just non-sense. To keep on the example of racism, if the I2P staff is anti-racist, that is fine as long as they do not discourage racists to participate to the project (as long as those racists are not discouraging people from other skin colours then their skin coulour to participate). Link 21 hours ago #6 raccoondad ★★ I2P Legend ★★ Img_20220622_164614_004 I wrote this on the IRC but its really a statement about the generalized community and devs (if not just ZZZ himself) Its weird to get offended over a statement like "we like minorities" as if its some kind of hot take. Its just saying "We want I2P to be used for good", which is kind of obvious. Seeing some sites like "wlm" being on here, its not surprising ZZZ would write a statement to suggest that I2P wasn't created as some network to direct hatred. If you think the statement, "We don't hate minorities" is an "agenda", I really can't help you. People are acting like ZZZ just made an update that bans websites with offensive content when its just a years old quote on the projects website, which may I remind you boils down to "We would want good faith people to use this software as a way to better the world" I2P was created to be a force of general good, with bad faith actors abusing the freedom a service like this gives, but thats not the idea of what I2P is created for. Thats all I get from this quote, just a "we built this software with good intentions" Link 20 hours ago #7 Xeyed1 Newbie ;-) [quote=raccoondad] If you think the statement, "We don't hate minorities" is an "agenda", I really can't help you. Link 16 hours ago #8 HoardMonero Newbie Hoardingmonero That inclusion statement reads like a human resources shibboleth. Why especially mention the LGBT stuff in it? Did i2p devs, or the community (whatever it means) act hostile towards those "minorities" in the past so that now it seeks to redeem itself by acting apologetic? I think it is a statement that is unasked for and reads like an ugly appendage to the whole "Contact" page. It immediately colors the I2P project in a certain American leftist progressivist view---which many others (perhaps me included, as a non-Western person---say, a "minority" if you will) will be alienated from. Also, there is a certain sense of contradiction saying "we disgrace hate," and then putting a mission statement of ushering a world "without hate." So you are hating the haters, and becoming a hater yourself? Anyways, as many others wrote in this topic so far, I am for writing a more neutral introduction letter. Or, removing that paragraph altogether. It is out of place in the page, and it is unnecessary to present to the visitors. Helpful? Tip XMR! 83yfSVYFpKwjmXxuMTAMwxdUtwJYoAFsBU8J8J2J79NDTngk9wMFyhQCAcZsBeK17K4V8LyEuLwtge462bzGUch7KHcPYkQ Link 16 hours ago #9 mesh Newbie > That inclusion statement reads like a human resources shibboleth. Why especially mention the LGBT stuff in it? Wow, imagine being this triggered by a statement of support for suppressed minorities. It's pure insanity. The inclusion statement is a fine addition that makes the values of the project clear. As somebody who actually uses I2P under an oppressive government which targets minorities and encourages others to use I2P, the statement makes it clear to future users that I2P is aware of their very real struggles and is working to help them. Helping people fight against oppressive governments is a political agenda but it's one that every decent human being should and can support. As for "neutrality" it's well understood that being "neutral" while people with a lot of power and money and guns hunt down a minority isn't neutral at all. Being neutral in this case is just supporting the status quo, supporting the oppression of certain groups, and supporting the idea that it's okay to lock people up for what they believe or who they love. I2P isn't neutral by its very nature and it's very important to remember who is using I2P and really needs it. This is basic stuff. Link 14 hours ago #10 hijtmann Lurker Suppressed minorities with full corporate support and billions in funding, yeah certainly. /////// I know what the statement is about, it has something to do with current political frictions between the now-socialist west and the older socialists in Russia, where Russia is now demonized including average people, and since there happens to be some of them using I2P some guy thought it is a russian retreat or something (it's definitely not) and launched the ddos attack of last month. Last edited: 14 hours ago by hijtmann Link 14 hours ago #11 HoardMonero Newbie Hoardingmonero >Wow, imagine being this triggered by a statement of support for suppressed minorities. The real question is, why should a software project about anonymous and end to end encrypted computer networks BE concerned about any of human demographics? The developers themselves can have such concerns, and compassion towards such so called "oppressed" minorities, and I have no objections to that. Everybody is beholden to their own personal opinion. The question is, and what rubs many people the wrong way, is, why is the I2P's "official voice" putting forward such statements towards only one type of specific minority group? There are loads of other minority groups that you can say that are being oppressed by the modernity. Why should the official I2P statement pick one group of minority over the others? Helpful? Tip XMR! 83yfSVYFpKwjmXxuMTAMwxdUtwJYoAFsBU8J8J2J79NDTngk9wMFyhQCAcZsBeK17K4V8LyEuLwtge462bzGUch7KHcPYkQ Link 13 hours ago #12 mesh Newbie > The question is, and what rubs many people the wrong way, is, why is the I2P's "official voice" putting forward such statements towards only one type of specific minority group? Again with the bullshit. What do you think I2P is? Is it a billion dollar corporation? A governmental agency? No. I2P is a group of developers. Normal, regular people who have been working on this project for nearly 20 years without pay. And now you want to show up and spew bullshit and preach to them about the "official voice"? A device you created out of thin air literally 10 minutes ago? Here's the pure insanity part: you really think you can control the behavior of the developers. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to fall for it? > Why should the official I2P statement pick one group of minority over the others? Who said anything about picking one "group of minority" over another. I2P clearly supports all groups who are oppressed by official powers. That is the whole point of the project. It's not anonymous for fun. And while you think you can sew division by pointing out certain groups, nobody is actually stupid enough to fall for it. It's very clear that certain groups need anonymous communication to survive. I2P is for these groups, whenever and wherever. Link 12 hours ago #13 lgillis Newbie I2p-forenlogo-80s A nice example of associations, dear friends. The accusation on the part of "minetest_i2p" obviously refers to the P2P network operated by its anonymous participants and not to the contact site of the I2P developer team, which is partly in the public eye. And that would already close the case. Nevertheless, to be clear, this succinct statement of "inclusion" is about self-protection. The team welcomes all those seeking help on its social project pages and on IRC, and will help where possible as long as those seeking advice adhere to the aforementioned exemplary standards of decency. It would be fatal if, for example, the terrorist were to turn to the I2P team to set up a terrorist cell from this point of view. And it would not be the first time that common criminals have blatantly approached developers for help in their schemes. At the same time, it is an instruction to the inner circle to practice tolerance. In addition, software developers are of course allowed to express pious wishes about what their product should and should not be used for. Much more damaging, however, are formulations from which everyone can read out what suits him or her, for example the so-called "I2P philosophy". Link 12 hours ago #14 NarratorZ I2P Regular mesh wrote: > That inclusion statement reads like a human resources shibboleth. Why especially mention the LGBT stuff in it? Wow, imagine being this triggered by a statement of support for suppressed minorities. It's pure insanity. The inclusion statement is a fine addition that makes the values of the project clear. As somebody who actually uses I2P under an oppressive government which targets minorities and encourages others to use I2P, the statement makes it clear to future users that I2P is aware of their very real struggles and is working to help them. Helping people fight against oppressive governments is a political agenda but it's one that every decent human being should and can support. As for "neutrality" it's well understood that being "neutral" while people with a lot of power and money and guns hunt down a minority isn't neutral at all. Being neutral in this case is just supporting the status quo, supporting the oppression of certain groups, and supporting the idea that it's okay to lock people up for what they believe or who they love. I2P isn't neutral by its very nature and it's very important to remember who is using I2P and really needs it. This is basic stuff. You're right, the dark web has intense anarchist and autonomist overtones. If you don't like it, don't play Digital stowaways under the Great Firewall Link 12 hours ago #15 HoardMonero Newbie Hoardingmonero mesh wrote: > The question is, and what rubs many people the wrong way, is, why is the I2P's "official voice" putting forward such statements towards only one type of specific minority group? Again with the bullshit. What do you think I2P is? Is it a billion dollar corporation? A governmental agency? No. I2P is a group of developers. Normal, regular people who have been working on this project for nearly 20 years without pay. And now you want to show up and spew bullshit and preach to them about the "official voice"? A device you created out of thin air literally 10 minutes ago? Here's the pure insanity part: you really think you can control the behavior of the developers. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to fall for it? > Why should the official I2P statement pick one group of minority over the others? Who said anything about picking one "group of minority" over another. I2P clearly supports all groups who are oppressed by official powers. That is the whole point of the project. It's not anonymous for fun. And while you think you can sew division by pointing out certain groups, nobody is actually stupid enough to fall for it. It's very clear that certain groups need anonymous communication to survive. I2P is for these groups, whenever and wherever. Too many sentences, yet too little arguments. You can chant the word "bullshit, bullshit" however much you want. > And now you want to show up and spew bullshit and preach to them about the "official voice"? A device you created out of thin air literally 10 minutes ago? > Here's the pure insanity part: you really think you can control the behavior of the developers. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to fall for it? What the heck are you even talking about in these sentences? I said official voice, because the inclusion statement is published in the i2p-projekt.i2p site, which is indeed the official website for the i2p project? Is this wrong? Further, I did not say anything about "controlling the behavior of the developers". I especially said, individual developers can feel compassion towards any minority group they deem compassion-worthy. I further said, everybody is beholden to their own opinions. How is "controlling the behavior" of anyone? My point is when the official voice of I2P proclaims "we do support LGBT", it is picking one of the oppressed groups out of dime-a-dozen others. And that is just ugly. It is a political move, or one that can easily be interpreted as one. Because when you pick one group over the others, you are using your own moral judgment. Why not highlight "we do support covid-vaccine-skeptics" which were immensely censored and oppressed by the mainstream media and the mainstream media medical establishment, just 2 years ago? Or, why not highlight, "we do support neo-nazis" as the oppressed minority groups? How about this: why not just say, in the Inclusion note, "We do support suppressed minorities and other people, whether they need help in kind of our I2P software or not." How about saying just that? Would you be opposing to that? Helpful? Tip XMR! 83yfSVYFpKwjmXxuMTAMwxdUtwJYoAFsBU8J8J2J79NDTngk9wMFyhQCAcZsBeK17K4V8LyEuLwtge462bzGUch7KHcPYkQ Link 12 hours ago #16 orignal ★★ I2P Legend ★★ As opposite we can state, that i2pd is a meritocracy. We evaluate people on their merits and their work, rather than belonging to particular social groups. Link 11 hours ago #17 lgillis Newbie I2p-forenlogo-80s Just out of curiosity, orignal, what merits and works are recognized in your meritocracy, in your official opinion, does the visible dismantling of hard-won achievements such as human rights count as meritocracy? Link 11 hours ago #18 zzz Administrator Zzz - echelon runs the website - echelon added the text in 2021 - I was not involved with or consulted about the change - Please move discussion on this topic to http://i2pforum.i2p/ - locking this thread Link Page 1 of 1 This Topic is Locked " Now my point is zzz is not jumping up and down in some sort of apoplectic spam about this. Read it for yourself and you can see that. So why would it drive him to quit AND kill his site when he has explicitly stated that he would not do this because of the manner that J Random disappeared caused so much problems. The whole thing stinks. Smells of sulfur. I would like to know does anyone have a copy of the source code to zzz's last I2P version: 2.1.0-0 How can we use zzz's public key(or did he have one at that time only for him) to verify that it was done by him and no one else? Is there a way to get the source before it was taken over AND KNOW that the source has not been tampered with? I'm not sure if that's possible because I think the people running I2P java now had access to the keys before zzz disappeared. Seeing as how they have no problem updating within the I2P infrastructure now, that may be the case. If so how would you ever know the older code, supposedly by zzz, was not tampered with also?
Offline	Link

[quote=fairlyNoobQuestions]

VargThePissed and zlatinb were engaged in an oppositional discussion but given that some time has passed it seems community members have put aside what appear to me minor or perceived differences for the sake of a greater good, and that is the health of the I2P network and the community.
[/quote]

I haven't put aside anything. I think zlatinb(fake) is a Jew who is pretending to be zab. He doesn't talk like him or act like him. But there's little to no point in arguing with Jews. They will just blather nonsense constantly.

There's further evidence that there are problems with I2P java. Looking at this post,

"repo not working on whonix install"

He's trying to update and getting,

"...The following signatures couldn’t be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY AB9660B9EB2CC88B..."

So could it be that zzz removed his key. Maybe the present controllers of I2P java have keys for some of it but missed this one. So zzz removes it and people notice. Like me. Address below.

http://i2pforum.i2p/viewtopic.php?p=2572&si...

[quote=fairlyNoobQuestions]
Also looking forward to someone posting the contents of the zip file above that I cannot open.[/quote]

Here is the zip file in text form,cut and paste,

"zzz.i2p
Development discussions

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Forum

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i2p projekt should stay politically neutral « Complaints and Questions ... « I2P Help, Hints, Advice

1 day ago #1

minetest_i2p
Lurker

this is regarding the text at the bottom of : http://i2p-projekt.i2p/en/contact

it reads:
"
I2P welcomes all kinds of people, as long as they are friendly and helpful to each other.
We disgrace hate, anger, racism, and bad speaking towards anyone.
We do support LBGT, suppressed minorites and other people, wether they need help in kind of our I2P software or not.
We work together to build a free world without hate, racism and violence.
The I2P router software was created in this spirit and should be used to help repressed people to regain their freedom of speech, while not suppressing others.
"

now do I think this statement is bad, no not really but me and many others think it should stay neutral.

in fact just about anyone on #i2p-chat (irc2p) thinks so

please change it or delete it to remain neutral

here is a recommended change from "det" over on irc2p

"I2P protects people from hatred, but it does not discriminate against protecting the hateful, so be aware that on this network you will find humanity."

"I2P welcomes all kinds of people, whether friendly and helpful or grumpy and cantankerous you can find a home here."

also there are many typos in the statment
wether
and
LBGT (unless thats some other group i havent heard about)

find my site and gpg key here http://minetest.i2p

-minetest_i2p
Link
1 day ago #2

Sig
Lurker

Haven't said much on IRC but count me in those who "think so" too, didn't think I'd see this kind of agenda pushed on an anonymous network project.
Link
1 day ago #3

rapidash
Lurker

I wish to express my rejection towards taking overtly political or partisan stances.

For one, I think it is hard to differentiate political statements from partisan statements, so any single time a group endorses a particular political position, it always reads as "We vote for $PARTY", which is most likely NOT the image most groups want to portray. By that, I mean that even groups that are in the pocket of some political party want to look like they are NOT in the pocket of some political party.

Modern diversity statements are also a comparative offense, every single time. I belong to a minority group that is never referenced by diversity statements. Every single time a diversity statement is published, it feels like the group issuing the statement thinks a whole lot of people (gays, blacks, whatever) deserves mention. The problem is every group not mentioned is automatically relegated to a second place at best. Diversity statements are discriminatory in that they ALWAYS imply that the team issuing them cares more for certain groups of people than for others.

Lots of groups are opposed to each other, so you can't really agree with all of them. If you endorse gays you will antagonize a number of Muslim groups automatically, for example. The only way in which you can be friendly to both groups is to have no favorites. In practical terms that means if you want to be friendly to most groups, the only rule you need is "I2P welcomes anybody who is not an utter asshole". Anything else looks like cheap virtue signaling that is not even a good effort at that.

Link
23 hours ago #4

csaybacsiuaybc
Lurker

+1 for minetest. Develop on I2P to improve the software. You can have your own political views when it comes to various topics but don't make it so the project itself is associated with any sort of views like this. The point of this is for freedom to all who use it and that is what this should be about. Freedom for everyone. Love LGBT, hate a minority, sharing designs for printed guns for terrorists, etc none of it should matter when it comes to I2P.

Last edited: 22 hours ago by csaybacsiuaybc
Link
23 hours ago #5

Flupke
Lurker

I really think this is stupid that a community around a tool made for freedom of speech speaks about repressing anyone.
Some people hate some people due to this or that specificity, that is human and choosing an hate instead of another hate (for example choosing the hate of racism instead of the hate of different races) is still choosing a hate.
It would be OK to state that people should not discourage other people to participate to the project for whatever reason and so keep their own hate for themselves in the participation to the project but that ideological choice is just non-sense.
To keep on the example of racism, if the I2P staff is anti-racist, that is fine as long as they do not discourage racists to participate to the project (as long as those racists are not discouraging people from other skin colours then their skin coulour to participate).
Link
21 hours ago #6

raccoondad
★★ I2P Legend ★★
Img_20220622_164614_004

I wrote this on the IRC but its really a statement about the generalized community and devs (if not just ZZZ himself)

Its weird to get offended over a statement like "we like minorities" as if its some kind of hot take. Its just saying "We want I2P to be used for good", which is kind of obvious.

Seeing some sites like "wlm" being on here, its not surprising ZZZ would write a statement to suggest that I2P wasn't created as some network to direct hatred.

If you think the statement, "We don't hate minorities" is an "agenda", I really can't help you.

People are acting like ZZZ just made an update that bans websites with offensive content when its just a years old quote on the projects website, which may I remind you boils down to "We would want good faith people to use this software as a way to better the world"

I2P was created to be a force of general good, with bad faith actors abusing the freedom a service like this gives, but thats not the idea of what I2P is created for.

Thats all I get from this quote, just a "we built this software with good intentions"
Link
20 hours ago #7

Xeyed1
Newbie

;-)

[quote=raccoondad]

If you think the statement, "We don't hate minorities" is an "agenda", I really can't help you.

Link
16 hours ago #8

HoardMonero
Newbie
Hoardingmonero

That inclusion statement reads like a human resources shibboleth. Why especially mention the LGBT stuff in it? Did i2p devs, or the community (whatever it means) act hostile towards those "minorities" in the past so that now it seeks to redeem itself by acting apologetic?

I think it is a statement that is unasked for and reads like an ugly appendage to the whole "Contact" page. It immediately colors the I2P project in a certain American leftist progressivist view---which many others (perhaps me included, as a non-Western person---say, a "minority" if you will) will be alienated from.

Also, there is a certain sense of contradiction saying "we disgrace hate," and then putting a mission statement of ushering a world "without hate." So you are hating the haters, and becoming a hater yourself?

Anyways, as many others wrote in this topic so far, I am for writing a more neutral introduction letter. Or, removing that paragraph altogether. It is out of place in the page, and it is unnecessary to present to the visitors.

Helpful? Tip XMR! 83yfSVYFpKwjmXxuMTAMwxdUtwJYoAFsBU8J8J2J79NDTngk9wMFyhQCAcZsBeK17K4V8LyEuLwtge462bzGUch7KHcPYkQ
Link
16 hours ago #9

mesh
Newbie

> That inclusion statement reads like a human resources shibboleth. Why especially mention the LGBT stuff in it?

Wow, imagine being this triggered by a statement of support for suppressed minorities.

It's pure insanity.

The inclusion statement is a fine addition that makes the values of the project clear. As somebody who actually uses I2P under an oppressive government which targets minorities and encourages others to use I2P, the statement makes it clear to future users that I2P is aware of their very real struggles and is working to help them. Helping people fight against oppressive governments is a political agenda but it's one that every decent human being should and can support. As for "neutrality" it's well understood that being "neutral" while people with a lot of power and money and guns hunt down a minority isn't neutral at all. Being neutral in this case is just supporting the status quo, supporting the oppression of certain groups, and supporting the idea that it's okay to lock people up for what they believe or who they love. I2P isn't neutral by its very nature and it's very important to remember who is using I2P and really needs it.

This is basic stuff.

Link
14 hours ago #10

hijtmann
Lurker

Suppressed minorities with full corporate support and billions in funding, yeah certainly.

///////

I know what the statement is about, it has something to do with current political frictions between the now-socialist west and the older socialists in Russia, where Russia is now demonized including average people, and since there happens to be some of them using I2P some guy thought it is a russian retreat or something (it's definitely not) and launched the ddos attack of last month.

Last edited: 14 hours ago by hijtmann
Link
14 hours ago #11

HoardMonero
Newbie
Hoardingmonero

>Wow, imagine being this triggered by a statement of support for suppressed minorities.

The real question is, why should a software project about anonymous and end to end encrypted computer networks BE concerned about any of human demographics? The developers themselves can have such concerns, and compassion towards such so called "oppressed" minorities, and I have no objections to that. Everybody is beholden to their own personal opinion.

The question is, and what rubs many people the wrong way, is, why is the I2P's "official voice" putting forward such statements towards only one type of specific minority group? There are loads of other minority groups that you can say that are being oppressed by the modernity. Why should the official I2P statement pick one group of minority over the others?

Helpful? Tip XMR! 83yfSVYFpKwjmXxuMTAMwxdUtwJYoAFsBU8J8J2J79NDTngk9wMFyhQCAcZsBeK17K4V8LyEuLwtge462bzGUch7KHcPYkQ
Link
13 hours ago #12

mesh
Newbie

> The question is, and what rubs many people the wrong way, is, why is the I2P's "official voice" putting forward such statements towards only one type of specific minority group?

Again with the bullshit. What do you think I2P is? Is it a billion dollar corporation? A governmental agency?

No.

I2P is a group of developers. Normal, regular people who have been working on this project for nearly 20 years without pay. And now you want to show up and spew bullshit and preach to them about the "official voice"? A device you created out of thin air literally 10 minutes ago?

Here's the pure insanity part: you really think you can control the behavior of the developers. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to fall for it?

> Why should the official I2P statement pick one group of minority over the others?

Who said anything about picking one "group of minority" over another. I2P clearly supports **all** groups who are oppressed by official powers. That is the whole point of the project. It's not anonymous for fun. And while you think you can sew division by pointing out certain groups, nobody is actually stupid enough to fall for it. It's very clear that certain groups need anonymous communication to survive. I2P is for these groups, whenever and wherever.
Link
12 hours ago #13

lgillis
Newbie
I2p-forenlogo-80s

A nice example of associations, dear friends.

The accusation on the part of "minetest_i2p" obviously refers to the P2P network operated by its anonymous participants and not to the contact site of the I2P developer team, which is partly in the public eye. And that would already close the case.

Nevertheless, to be clear, this succinct statement of "inclusion" is about self-protection. The team welcomes all those seeking help on its social project pages and on IRC, and will help where possible as long as those seeking advice adhere to the aforementioned exemplary standards of decency. It would be fatal if, for example, the terrorist were to turn to the I2P team to set up a terrorist cell from this point of view. And it would not be the first time that common criminals have blatantly approached developers for help in their schemes. At the same time, it is an instruction to the inner circle to practice tolerance.

In addition, software developers are of course allowed to express pious wishes about what their product should and should not be used for. Much more damaging, however, are formulations from which everyone can read out what suits him or her, for example the so-called "I2P philosophy".
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12 hours ago #14

NarratorZ
I2P Regular

mesh wrote:
> That inclusion statement reads like a human resources shibboleth. Why especially mention the LGBT stuff in it?

Wow, imagine being this triggered by a statement of support for suppressed minorities.

It's pure insanity.

This is basic stuff.

You're right, the dark web has intense anarchist and autonomist overtones. If you don't like it, don't play

Digital stowaways under the Great Firewall
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12 hours ago #15

HoardMonero
Newbie
Hoardingmonero

mesh wrote:
> The question is, and what rubs many people the wrong way, is, why is the I2P's "official voice" putting forward such statements towards only one type of specific minority group?

Again with the bullshit. What do you think I2P is? Is it a billion dollar corporation? A governmental agency?

No.

Here's the pure insanity part: you really think you can control the behavior of the developers. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to fall for it?

> Why should the official I2P statement pick one group of minority over the others?

Too many sentences, yet too little arguments. You can chant the word "bullshit, bullshit" however much you want.

> And now you want to show up and spew bullshit and preach to them about the "official voice"? A device you created out of thin air literally 10 minutes ago?

> Here's the pure insanity part: you really think you can control the behavior of the developers. Do you think anybody is stupid enough to fall for it?

What the heck are you even talking about in these sentences? I said official voice, because the inclusion statement is published in the i2p-projekt.i2p site, which is indeed the official website for the i2p project? Is this wrong?

Further, I did not say anything about "controlling the behavior of the developers". I especially said, individual developers can feel compassion towards any minority group they deem compassion-worthy. I further said, everybody is beholden to their own opinions. How is "controlling the behavior" of anyone?

My point is when the official voice of I2P proclaims "we do support LGBT", it is picking one of the oppressed groups out of dime-a-dozen others. And that is just ugly. It is a political move, or one that can easily be interpreted as one. Because when you pick one group over the others, you are using your own moral judgment. Why not highlight "we do support covid-vaccine-skeptics" which were immensely censored and oppressed by the mainstream media and the mainstream media medical establishment, just 2 years ago? Or, why not highlight, "we do support neo-nazis" as the oppressed minority groups?

How about this: why not just say, in the Inclusion note, "We do support suppressed minorities and other people, whether they need help in kind of our I2P software or not." How about saying just that? Would you be opposing to that?

Helpful? Tip XMR! 83yfSVYFpKwjmXxuMTAMwxdUtwJYoAFsBU8J8J2J79NDTngk9wMFyhQCAcZsBeK17K4V8LyEuLwtge462bzGUch7KHcPYkQ
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12 hours ago #16

orignal
★★ I2P Legend ★★

As opposite we can state, that i2pd is a meritocracy. We evaluate people on their merits and their work, rather than belonging to particular social groups.
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11 hours ago #17

lgillis
Newbie
I2p-forenlogo-80s

Just out of curiosity, orignal, what merits and works are recognized in your meritocracy, in your official opinion, does the visible dismantling of hard-won achievements such as human rights count as meritocracy?
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11 hours ago #18

zzz
Administrator
Zzz

- echelon runs the website
- echelon added the text in 2021
- I was not involved with or consulted about the change
- Please move discussion on this topic to http://i2pforum.i2p/
- locking this thread
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This Topic is Locked
"

Now my point is zzz is not jumping up and down in some sort of apoplectic spam about this. Read it for yourself and you can see that. So why would it drive him to quit AND kill his site when he has explicitly stated that he would not do this because of the manner that J Random disappeared caused so much problems. The whole thing stinks. Smells of sulfur.

I would like to know does anyone have a copy of the source code to zzz's last I2P version: 2.1.0-0

How can we use zzz's public key(or did he have one at that time only for him) to verify that it was done by him and no one else? Is there a way to get the source before it was taken over AND KNOW that the source has not been tampered with?

I'm not sure if that's possible because I think the people running I2P java now had access to the keys before zzz disappeared. Seeing as how they have no problem updating within the I2P infrastructure now, that may be the case. If so how would you ever know the older code, supposedly by zzz, was not tampered with also?